伊甸文苑即将正式对外开放。自兰先生手里接管过论坛后，我们将边学边干，按照用
户的需求和网站的发展，对版面及功能做些调整。现在开这条线，商量、记录一些
即将开始的管理工作：

1) 专栏更名：将名称含混的“其它话题”改为“社会政经”，冷清的“媒体互动”
改为“人生百态”。此项改动还在商议之中。希望网友发表意见！

2) 专栏中的专栏：
眼下只有“诗苑”里有进一步的分类 --“儿童”、“抒情”、“哲理”、“其它”。
接下来所有专栏都要进一步分类，比如“散文天地”里要分“游记”、“杂文”、
“随想”等，“文史哲”内要分“历史”、“哲学”、“文学评论”等。

[ Last edited by 伊甸园丁 on 2006-4-25 at 15:29 ]

3) 空置文集、博客的处理意见：
文友的文集、博客建立后，30天内如果里面还没有任何内容，我们将考虑将其删除。
这样做是为了减少其它网友进入此文集、博客后什么都看不到的麻烦。所以，希望
文友在建立了自己的文集和博客后，在里面至少先放一篇文章。当然，某个空置文
集、博客被删除后，文友任何时候都可以再重建。

[ Last edited by 伊甸园丁 on 2006-4-25 at 15:29 ]

4) MP3音乐库:
我们计划逐步建立一个MP3音乐库，供网友相互交流。当然首先我们需要搞清楚MP3文
件上传下载涉及的法律问题。违法的事情我们不做。

[ Last edited by 伊甸园丁 on 2006-4-25 at 15:30 ]

海雨，你好：

谢谢你的新建议。你总是这样慷慨热情，让我们心怀感激。有关这个问题，我会问
问兰先生有没有简单的解决办法。

你知道我们几个都是业余写手，建立这个论坛是想让它帮助促进大家的写作。我一
直做UNIX系统管理员工作(thesunlover is actually the Sun Microsystems lover,
but unfortunately my lover is not blooming anymore, if not dying, haha)，
几乎没有编程经验(You don't think shell programming is programming, do you)，
虽然对编程也有浓厚兴趣，问题是时间实在有限。他们几个距IT更远。所以在可以预
见的将来，我们可能都没有多余的时间和精力来学习如何customize论坛界面和功能。
兰先生将是我们值得信赖的outsouce，and I am the daily housekeeper。

作为系统管理员，我更关心的是网站的安全和持久稳定。随着用户的不断增加和文
件的膨胀，接下来需要做的工作是local backup。我们不能只依赖HOST的备份系统，
一是他们的backup policy不一定符合我们的具体需要，二是万一他们的系统出了事
故，我们不想为他们陪葬。这就是需要建立local backup系统的主要原因。

具体建立local backup系统，我初步决定选用VERITAS NetBackup(software)+Tape
Drive(hardware)+RedHat Linux(OS)。这方面你有什么具体意见和建议吗？

再谢！

thesunlover


> searain wrote:

"show or not show in 文苑首页"

I don't know DISCUZ. If DISCUZ has a way to let people to post to the article
collection or blog ONLY without post to the forum, then all your problems
solved. I think thesunlover already discussed this with Mr. Lan before. If
DISCUZ doesn't have the way to do so, every post posted to the articles
collection and blog has to be posted to the forum. Then you will have to
modify the DISCUZ.

There will be several options:

1) First, check the discuz site to see if there are any other people have
the same issues and they already have the free solutions you can use. But
you and Mr. Lan already did a lot custom changes of this system, other people'
s solutions may not be able to apply directly.

2) Otherwise, you may have to write your own codes to handle this issue.
The solution is add a boolean field to the table which DISCUZ uses to hold
the every post. If people select not to post to the forum, the new boolean
field will be set as "false". Then for every forum related pages, you will
modify the codes to check if the new boolean fields set as false, the post
will not be shown. - this will be too much and also it will make your system
not be able to be updated directly from future DISCUZ new version.

3) still use the boolean fields as 2), but that boolean fields doesn't control
any other forum pages. that boolean field only control if the post will
be shown in 文苑首页. Which means you may only have two places to modify.
First, when people post, you will have one more selection for them, "show
or not show in 文苑首页", then when the post added, and when the post is
added to the database, the "show or not show in 文苑首页" will be represented
by true or false of the new boolean field you added. Second, in the codes
to get the posts for "文苑首页", in the sql statement, you will add one
more condition, the new boolean fields has to be true.

海雨？是华夏的海雨吗？这里老朋友真多。

爱太阳，还是头一回听你说网名的来历。我不打叉了，你们接着讨论。

You are on a shared server, right?  Or you are on a dedicated server?

As a matter of fact, I am a web programmer.  Manage the Server and the back up is the "sideline".  And manage the server or its back up usually will be through the shell command or shell programming (my headache and your area).

First of all, if you are on a shared server, what kind back up you can use may depends on what the ISP allows you or the ISP offers you.  Check to see what is their back up policy.

Your site web pages not change very frequently anyway.  I don't know very well about the DISCUZ.  I think your site changes daily is only the MySQL database, and the files (image doucments) uploaded.  And this site, I think the files uploaded is not very crucial, so the only crucial part is the MySQL database.

The ISP may already offers you a way (just a click somewhere in your account log in pages) to download your backup of the database.

If the ISP doesn't offer the back up tool.  

http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/mysqldump.html

mysqldump is the command to backup the database.  You either have to have the shell access to run the mysqldump.  Or write a php statement to call mysqldump if you don't have the shell access.

http://www.phpmyadmin.net/home_page/index.php

phpmyadmin is a web access database management tool for mysql.  the ISP may preinstall it already or you can install it yourself.  But since your site's database should be managed through the DISCUZ admin pages.  phpmyadmin is not very useful for you.

phpmyadmin has the database backup tools.  but some people warned that phpmyadmin database backup tool may not be very reliable.

Yeah, it is me.  They found me from a thread about building a web site in HXWZ.

So how was your exam?

Ha! now I knew where thesunlover came from.  And the web server boxes I used before, I bought from you guys.  And you guys took my money and run.

http://www.sun.com/hardware/serverappliances/raq550/

The web servers I bought are cobalt raq 550.  Sun bought the Cobalt.  And just few months after I bought the sever from Sun, Sun dropped the whole coblat product lines.  And then pretty soon, no updates, no supports and the web server Cobalt Raq 550 went out of date very soon.  I only used the two servers for 1.5 years and then they became garbage.  Now I rent a Unix box from ISP instead of colocation using my own server (100 dollars more every month, rent machine vs. use my own machine).  

To make things worse, Cobalt used to be one of the popular web servers on the Market, and it supports a database called InterBase.  Now due to Sun drop Cobalt dead, it is hard to find web hosting companies support InterBase.  And I have a few projects written on InterBase, now it is hard to find a big hosting company to support the InterBase to host them.

All these are because of SUN MICORSYSTEM.

园丁大人，
现在，虽说能上歌了，但不是上传功能。
自己手里的歌还是无法搬上来。

海雨，是你就好。:-)

我考得还行吧，和自己的期望值差不多。不过还是等分数出来了才能最后确定。这两天先放松放松再说。:-)

海雨，

伊甸现在是一个web host的普通客户，我们没有租用server。目前这个host的服务
和费用等都还令人满意。

如果伊甸膨胀较快，我们又能筹集到足够的资金，我计划建立一套mirror系统，用
自己的server，参照模仿host的环境LAMP。平常时mirror系统的主要目的不是供客
户使用从而为主系统分流，而是为了修改测试界面及功能(as a testing system)、
备份(as a backup system)和预防万一(as a redundancy system)，比如说如果
host down了，mirror系统就可以用上，以保证网站的稳定持续。

当时你为什么用Sun体系，而不用Linux体系？Sun体系不大适合小business。$75/hour
for upgrading Solaris is very expensive. What other services did you get?

老实说，我这几年越做，手就把得越严，采用的方案就越CHEAP，不一定适合你们。

1）首先，关于BACK UP和REDUNDANCY SYSTEM。看看你的HOSTING有什么样的BACK UP SERVICE，还有，有的HOSTING SERVER本身就是用2个DISK，并且其中一个DISK当作redundancy system的（他们SUPPORT几百个网站，一旦垮了没法恢复，麻烦大了去了。）。加上，你可以自己经常性的DOWNLOAD MYSQL数据库，偶然再DOWNLOAD一下整个网站（主要是DOWNLOAD那些UPLOAD的文件。但是这部分文件量很大， 时间和TRAFFIC都不容许你经常这么做。经常在家里这么做，你的HOME INTERNET SERVICEG公司会找你麻烦的。）现阶段应该足够了。

2）其次，RUN一个MIRROR系统对你们来说，在很长一段时间会是OVER KILL。大公司当然该用。HXWZ那么大，也可以用。还有比方说那些付费的色情网站，虽然小，他们也该有MIRROR系统，因为他们的客户是付钱的，系统DOWN了，客户是要求退钱的。而且，我的理解是MIRROR系统是和主系统都是一起运作时，主系统DOWN了，MIRROR系统还可以TAKE OVER。如果平时MIRROR系统不RUN，只有主系统RUN，主系统DOWN时，MIRROR系统也不能马上接过来。因为平时的DOMAIN NAME SERVICE都是只指向主系统（MIRROR系统没RUN）。RE－BROADCAST你的新DOMAIN IP地址，也要花些时间。这时，你的HOSTING公司可能已经修复了。因为你们是公益网站，等等也可以，别人的网站可能是和金钱利益悠关，等不及的。

关于自己做个MIRROR系统做为TEST之用，也可以兼做BACK UP之用，倒是可以马上做起来。用一台旧PC就可以，当然如果你要把将来全部的图都MIRROR到旧PC上，可能DISK SPACE不够。如果把图只COPY到TAPE上，而复制其他部分，就足够了。

自己在旧PC上装上LAMP，和YIDIAN（DISCUZ），就完全可以复制成了。然后你自己在家里做个LOCAL AREA NETWORK。可以从自己平时用的PC当做读者上你的TEST SERVER上的伊甸。

或者就在那旧PC TEST SERVER上，装上LINUX的DESKTOP应用软件。做为SERVER ADMINISTRATOR，你就直接从SHELL COMMAND接口去做，做为读者时，你就切换到LINUX的GUI DESKTOP的接口，用FIREFOX那样的BROWSER上网看TEST SERVER的运作。

我想用旧PC或者旧的UNIX BOX SET UP 一个TEST SERVER。这部分你可以马上做起来，你是系统出身，做这个是本行。TEST SERVER做好了。你就可以学习，测试，修改PHP CODE，和伊甸系统。等你熟悉了WEB SERVER，PHP和伊甸。下一步，伊甸可能也要发展到需要自己的SERVER了，到那时，你学来的正好可以用上。

下一步，你们就可能需要自己的SERVER。VIRTUAL SERVER或者PHYSICAL SERVER都可以。这样也更安全。普通WEB HOSTING就如什么人都可以成为邻居的APARTMENT BUILDING。当然HOSTING COMPANY会采取尽可能的安全措施。

如果有自己的SERVER，不光是YIDIAN，理论上你们可以自己HOST几百个网站，不受限制的安装更多的系统。

Each physical server is divided into several virtual servers.

• Each (dv) customer has full root access to their virtual servers, making them indistinguishable from dedicated servers.
• Neighboring sites that share the same physical hardware have no interaction with each other. If one crashes, its neighbors will be completely unaffected.

PHYSICAL SERVER可以租机子，也可以买自己机子存放到HOSTING COMPNAY只租COLOCATION。

这时需要你自己有WEB SERVER的管理知识和技术了。常用的管理可以用WEB ACCESS CONTROL PANEL，如PLESK。不过对你来说，直接用UNIX COMMAND会更方便，我都不需要PLESK。但是，可能其他园丁需要PLESK。

至于你如果现在在旧PC上SET UP TEST SERVER，用LINUX还是UNIX，应该是没什么区别，你是专家。我以为，因为几乎只是用于SERVER，那么装个UNIX好些，我的旧PC TEST SERVER用的是FREEBSD。

我从你们公司买的是COBALT RAQ 550，不是SUN，装的是LINUX系统。SUN推出COBALT RAQ 550时，大概就已经决定要毙了COBALT这一系列了。刚推出市场，我买回来一看，PHP，MYSQL什么都已经旧了。自己换PHP还和COBALT原系统不匹配。而且任何自己的UPDATE，都造成SUN不负责维护。但是不换不行，所以，，买回来第一天，就自己更新这系统。2个月后，SUN就宣布，毙了COBALT。如今我是租了台UNIX BOX（不是SUN），也就是上边说的租PHYSICAL SERVER的方案，用的是FREEBSD操作系统。

“$75/hour
for upgrading Solaris is very expensive. What other services did you get?”


These people are experts in Unix and web server management.  When last time, my Cobalt Raq 550 I bought from your company drop dead on me, they helped us fix it.   And I will call up on them for the unix web server management issues that I cannot do it cost effectively by myself.

I do the most web server management works by myself in unix shell.  But if something I am not familiar with, I pay them to do.  1 hour their time, may take me several hours if not more.  Also, before, I tried to do everything myself, first few times it was fine, then a small mistake I made messed things up, and I had to pay more money to ask them fix it.  So now I would rather pay 75 dollars for unix expert for the tasks I am not familiar with.  Maybe in the future, you can do it for me.  for free?

SUN's tech support for the COBALT RAQ 550 is terrible.  70 Euro for each service call.  So when my sun cobalt died, I turned to the other unix expert for help.

In the cobalt support forum a guy complained.

He called sun. "Your ad said Cobalt RAQ 550 has the way to auto transfer my old RAQ to it, is that right?"

Tech support:" Yes that is right.  You have to do these steps..."

He said:"I did, it is not working.  but I would try again."

He called again, "it is not working."

Tech support:"Yes, we know now, it is not working."

A few days later, that guy received invoice for two service calls charges, 70 euro each.

海雨，

我的设想是建立自己的主机系统，从而掌握伊甸的绝对自主权，并有利于测试、备份
和错容(redundancy)，而不是用这个系统做其它事情，完全不可能HOST其它网站
的。一个伊甸就够我们忙活的了，哪有心思它用。你知道小本经营这种BUSINESS是
没有丝毫利润的。一个月几元管理费，还不够我服务十分钟的市价呢。

对于这个伊甸主机系统，我初步的“宏伟”计划是用一台SUN主机作为进入INTERNET
的门户，上面安装FIREWALL等安全软件。另外用一台LINUX主机模拟HOST的环境，
安置伊甸网站。另外再用一台SUN主机作为BACKUP系统。

再谈！

I agree.  I have my own server, but I am not in the hosting business either.  I only host the web sites that I desgined, due to there might be some tech support for the web site and some special set up requirements for the server.  It is too difficult to support the web site I desgined on other's server (if I cannot have the server root access.)  Specially, some hosting servers of the ISP still use the old, and unsafe php set up so they can host the other people's sites which are written years ago.

I was assuming that some people have very simple web site, only a few static html pages etc. Once it is up there, you will never have to worry about the site as long as the server is running.  And they will not bother you 24/7 if there is a problem.  Just fix it when you have time.  As hosting with yidan's server as a donation to yidian. - but that might be difficult to control.  The clients may agree in the first, and later on, when their site is down, they might call you up in the middle night.  So yes, forget about the hosting idea.

As your plan, so why some on Unix some on Linux.  You can use Unix for all the machines.  Yidian on Unix or Linux will not make any difference.

And a simple Unix box is good enough, you may not need a SUN machine for this.  But if you can get good deal with Sun, then of course why not using SUN?

海雨，现在有两套方案：

一是建立伊甸自己的备份/错容/调试系统，卷入的工作量和金钱消费都比较大。工作量我倒不在乎，主要是钱的问题。我们
财力有限，网友捐款得用在刀刃上。

二是另外再找一家HOST，将伊甸PARK上去，作为错容/调试系统。这样费用较低。剩下的捐款可以用来升级功能和美化界面。伊甸看上去还是有些土里土气，尤其是博客，和新浪的比差远了，不能满足大家的要求。

你认为怎样？

谢谢！

单单BACK UP，在HOST COMPANY已经有的BACK UP基础上，每周DOWNLOAD整个网站，每天DOWNLOAD数据库，足够了。

做错容，调适，第二方案更合适，而且完全够用。找第二家HOST时，可以找找看那些容许你HOST 2－3家以上网站或者SUBDOMAIN的PACKAGE。这样，比方说，TEST新BLOG，或者其他系统时，你就可以用另一个网站。或者用SUBDOMAIN。

无论是现在还是第二家HOST，你们只需要SITE HOSTING PACKAGE，没有必要用“租用SERVER的PACKAGE”。SERVER的部分，你自己可以找台旧PC或者旧UNIX BOX（我用5年旧的PC做自己的开发SERVER），装上UNIX，APACHE，MYSQL，PHP，EMAIL，FTP等软件（都可以是FREE OPEN SOURCE的），和伊甸，以及其他你考虑试验的系统。自己做研究开发用。学习整套WEB SERVER的技术，也可以自己先在自己的机子上做开发，开发好了，放到第二HOST上，供园丁讨论。

关于BLOG，伊甸的BLOG还可以啊。当然，如果和新浪BLOG什么比，那是有点距离。伊甸是个论坛＋BLOG＋文集的系统，单独的功能可能比不了专门的系统。

有一个方案，那就是只保留伊甸的论坛和文集部分，另外安装一个专门的TOP RATED的BLOG系统（还是用拿来主义），比方说用WORDPRESS。可以用SUBDOMAIN，http://blog.yidian.org来HOST BLOG。

好处是，你可以有媲美新浪BLOG的BLOG系统，不利的是，BLOG和文苑是2套系统。用户建立BLOG必须重新登记帐号和重新登录。

http://wordpress.org/

曾经是TOP RATED的BLOG系统，但是最近一年新的好BLOG系统也是层出不穷，我只对WORDPRESS有些了解。你还可以研究一下其他的BLOG系统。

海雨，

谢谢你的意见。你和我的观点接近。伊甸应该将第一笔捐款主要用于功能增强和界
面改进，同时应用第二HOST作为错容和测试。备份先用HOST的。以后如果有更
多资金，再考虑建立自己的SERER。

大家也请谈谈！