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[原创] 点评海外的 "涼州詞“ 王翰(中译英)
[原创] 点评海外的 "涼州詞“ 王翰(中译英)


"涼州詞(唐)王翰(中译英)

葡萄美酒夜光杯﹐欲飲琵琶馬上催。醉臥沙場君莫笑﹐古來征戰幾人回﹖


A Verse Of Liangzhou*
by Wang Han




The delicious grape wine in gleaming Night-Hue Cups;      这句delicious不适宜。
About to drink, the lute urges us to mount horses.  --马上催, 是琵琶助兴催战士喝酒,不是催上马 。
这句译得让读者理解为战士没喝成酒就上马出发了,这样就与下边的内容没什么关系了。 英语逻辑关系很重要。   
Laugh not, if drunken we lie down on the battlefields,       Don't laugh 不是 Laugh not。  
For since old time how few return alive from wars!   "   


海外的译文很糟糕。 没有美感,  没有压韵,没有诗的感觉, 语言上:没有逻辑的连接, 形式上不是仿双行体,也不是自由体,不是55个英诗Styles中的任何一个。   http://www.poemofquotes.com/articles/poetry_forms.php

译文没有体现出战士的豪情满怀,准备马革裹尸的英雄悲壮的气概。



原诗的白话译文是这样的:
酒筵上甘醇的葡萄美酒盛满在精美的夜光杯之中,歌伎们弹奏起急促欢快的琵琶声助兴催饮,想到即将跨马奔赴沙场杀敌报国,战士们个个豪情满怀。
今日一定要一醉方休,即使醉倒在战场上又何妨?此次出征为国效力,本来就打算马革裹尸,没有准备活着回来。” 

 建议译者应该好好学懂原诗再译。




这是我的译稿,(草稿)

” The fine grape wine is held in the luminous cups,
the rapid sounds of Pipa are entertaining us.
Don't laugh if we  lie drunk on the battlefield,
since ancient times, returned from wars were only a few!

刘小曼译 “

42 评论

欲飲琵琶馬上催? 馬上催?

海外逸士  [评] 2016-8-8 07:33

urges us to mount horses.   你的是催上马。


d

Xiaoman  [评] 2016-8-8 07:42

c

Xiaoman  [评] 2016-8-8 07:52

《凉州词》- 王瀚

葡萄美酒夜光杯,
欲饮琵琶马上催。

醉卧沙场君莫笑,
古来征战几人回?

A Quatrain by Wang Han


Grape wine glistering in the goblets of moonlight,
Which all crave as lutes on steeds cheer on at the height.
Prithee laugh at not if one lieth drunk at the frontier,  
How many warriors of yore returned from fight?

tr. Xiao Cao

小草  [评] 2016-8-8 08:07

琵琶:这里指作战时用来发出号角的声音时用的。
催:催人出征;也有人解作鸣奏助兴。[2]

以上解读来自百度

小草  [评] 2016-8-8 08:10



引用:
Originally posted by 小草 at 2016-8-8 08:07:
《凉州词》- 王瀚

葡萄美酒夜光杯,
欲饮琵琶马上催。

醉卧沙场君莫笑,
古来征战几人回?

A Quatrain by Wang Han


Grape wine glistering in the goblet of moonlight,
Which all cra..

小草高才! 欣赏~

Xiaoman  [评] 2016-8-8 08:13

修改一下自己的草稿:
The fine grape wine is held in the luminous cups,
the rapid Pipa on the horse starts to entertain us.
Don't laugh if we  lie drunk on the battlefield,
  How many would return from the war? Only a few!

Xiaoman  [评] 2016-8-8 08:31

only few 也许更好 )

小草  [评] 2016-8-8 08:33



引用:
Originally posted by 小草 at 2016-8-8 08:33:
only few 也许更好 )

多谢小草! ~~  小草虚怀若谷,翻译得好,德才兼备,是我学习的榜样! :)



让我想起这首【满庭芳】:

满庭芳⑴ 蜗角虚名⑵,蝇头微利⑶,算来着甚干忙。事皆前定,谁弱又谁强。且趁闲身未老,须放我、些子疏狂⑷。百年里,浑教是醉,三万六千场⑸。 思量,能几许?忧愁风雨,一半相妨⑹。又何须抵死,说短论长。幸对清风皓月,苔茵展、云幕高张⑺。江南好,千钟美酒,一曲《满庭芳》。

Xiaoman  [评] 2016-8-8 12:27

“欲飲琵琶馬上催” 的确不是弹琵琶催人上马的意思,这个误解太可笑了。古文从来没有把“上马”倒装为“马上”,但是有倒装修饰词于被修饰词之后的用法。这里“琵琶馬上”就是“马上琵琶”的意思,为平仄故,指有人在马上弹琵琶助兴。

廖康  [评] 2016-8-8 12:49

多谢廖老师赐教! :)



我与“译网”网友的交流:

"yellow grass 写道::
把你的换两个字:

The fine grape wine is held in the luminous jars,
From on the horse comes the rapid Pipa sound.
Don't laugh if we lie drunk on the battleground,
How many, if at all, would return from wars!

谢谢Yellow Grass网友的参与!

窃以为最好是要准确为首,不能把名词,动词等主要词换成别的,是杯就不要说是Jars--罐子。我知道您这是为了押韵的目的,我们不能因韵害意。

最后一句应是问号,因为您用 how many ...

"From on the horse " sounds awkward.

Pipa sound. 不能只是一声。这也是您为押韵的目的而用Sound 而不是Sounds。

另外,这是廖康博士对这位ID为海外逸士翻译的评论:

“ “欲飲琵琶馬上催” 的确不是弹琵琶催人上马的意思,这个误解太可笑了。古文从来没有把“上马”倒装为“马上”,但是有倒装修饰词于被修饰词之后的用法。这里“琵琶馬上”就是“马上琵琶”的意思,为平仄故,指有人在马上弹琵琶助兴。”

来源: www.yidian.org/view-thread-23753.html

高手 “小草” 另有好译,欢迎大家来赏读,切磋! :)



廖康博士: 英汉翻译教授,在加州蒙特瑞国际研究学院翻译研究生院教书。毕业于北京师范大学、英国阿伯丁大学、美国西弗吉尼亚大学英文系,分别获得英文学士、硕士和博士学位。出版过英文著作《赛珍珠——横跨太平洋的文化桥梁》,获美国大多数大学图书馆收藏,并与其他学者共同出版过《成人教育百科全书》和六本英汉译著,在各报刊杂志及文学网络上发表过二百余篇中文影评、书评、小说、散文和东西方文化比较研究文章和随笔。

baike.baidu.com/subview/2648908/10768883.htm

欢迎有诚意学习,讨论翻译和英语的朋友来伊甸文苑交流! "

Xiaoman  [评] 2016-8-8 13:30



引用:
Originally posted by Xiaoman at 2016-8-8 05:27 PM:


多谢小草! ~~  小草虚怀若谷,翻译得好,德才兼备,是我学习的榜样! :)



让我想起这首【满庭芳】:

满庭芳⑴ 蜗角虚名⑵,蝇头微利⑶,算来着甚干忙。事皆前定,谁弱又谁强。且趁闲身未老,须..

小曼同学太过谦虚了。) 相互学习,共同进步!

小草  [评] 2016-8-9 08:09

My second sentence is thus:
About to drink 欲饮, the lute played to urge by players on horses.

"催"不是"娛樂"。不能正確理解古詩詞,別發表意見,特別冠了個博士頭銜。為什麼沒自知之明。不知道自己的斤兩,老要自我出醜。就像路同志改我詩一樣。為什麼你老要把他們兩人在這個網站上的錯誤話,搬到那裡去讓他們出醜。你跟他們有仇呀。好像你是跟我有仇,你的帖子都有罵我的話。這裡的網友都看着呢。

全詩意思:
有人在喝酒,有人在馬上彈琵琶催出征。最後兩句是喝酒人的話。

海外逸士  [评] 2016-8-9 10:31

laugh not 是古英文的用法。英文學得精深些,再來與我辯論。為什麼老是沒有自知之明,還要自以為是。這裡英文水平高的網友都在看着呢。

海外逸士  [评] 2016-8-9 10:44

看了别人的意见,改了,本是好事,但不承认,却反咬一口,就不是君子所为了。你原来的英译是“About to drink, the lute urges us to mount horses.” 那不是催人上马,是什么?现在的新译还是非常蹩脚:About to drink 欲饮, the lute played to urge by players on horses.


在马上有人弹奏琵琶是助兴催饮,不是催人上马。如果真是催人出征,也不会弹琵琶呀!击鼓还差不多。

引用:
Originally posted by 海外逸士 at 2016-8-9 03:31 PM:

My second sentence is thus:
About to drink 欲饮, the lute played to urge by players on horses.

"催"不是"娛樂"。不能正確理解古詩詞,別發表意見,特別冠了個博士頭銜。為什麼沒自知之明。不知道自己的斤兩,老要自我出醜。就像路同志改我詩一樣。為什麼你老要把他們兩人在這個網站上的錯誤話,搬到那裡去讓他們出醜。你跟他們有仇呀。好像你是跟我有仇,你的帖子都有罵我的話。這裡的網友都看着呢。

全詩意思:
有人在喝酒,有人在馬上彈琵琶催出征。最後兩句是喝酒人的話。



廖康  [评] 2016-8-9 10:47

海外的译文还是句句有不妥。如果觉得我说的不对,请有理有据地反驳。

原文:葡萄美酒夜光杯﹐
海外:The delicious grape wine in gleaming Night-Hue Cups;      
点评:1. grape wine虽不错,但wine一般都是grape酿成的,所以这个grape可以不要。2. 夜光杯不是酒杯的名字,所以不要大写成Night-Hue Cups。就好象我们说铁船,并不要将它大写成An Iron Boat一样。an iron boat就可以了。

原文:欲飲琵琶馬上催。
海外:About to drink, the lute urges us to mount horses.  
点评:1. About to drink从语法角度说应该是when (we are ) about to drink,不然不能做时间状语,所以要说when about to drink。2. About to drink主语不清,是谁about to drink?难道是上面的wine或者cups,还是下面的the lute?

原文:醉臥沙場君莫笑﹐
海外:Laugh not, if drunken we lie down on the battlefields,  
点评:Laugh not,主语不清,是谁 laugh not,难道是下面的we? 特别是上面还有一个about to drink主语不清,这一个就更难理解了。

原文:古來征戰幾人回﹖
海外:For since old time how few return alive from wars!   "
点评:1. time应该是times. 2. Return应该是完成时have returned。

 [评] 2016-8-9 11:04



引用:
Originally posted by 海外逸士 at 2016-8-9 10:31:
My second sentence is thus:
About to drink 欲饮, the lute played to urge by players on horses.

"催"不是"娛樂"。不能正確理解古詩詞,別發表意見,特別冠了個博士頭銜。為什麼沒自..

我帖子没问题,都是陈述事实.


博士,翻译家给你上课,还不快谢恩。

Xiaoman  [评] 2016-8-9 11:18

d

Xiaoman  [评] 2016-8-9 11:32

d

Xiaoman  [评] 2016-8-9 11:43

d

Xiaoman  [评] 2016-8-9 11:49

,

Xiaoman  [评] 2016-8-9 12:02

Id为海外的, 几十年前的垃圾搬出来除了出自己的丑没有益处,你又没新作。 没有拿得出手的东西再吹也吹不上天。 有本事就拿出国礼级别的作品, 有本事就写一本成为国内一流学府研究生必读的书。 没这个本事你再妒恨人家大翻译家,大博士也没有用啊。
再上窜下跳也没有用,他的东西贴1000块钱给我,我也不会再多看一眼。   (亲爱的读者们,是这个ID先恶毒攻击人家大翻译家)

Xiaoman  [评] 2016-8-9 19:19

问谁领风骚
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAkqooM2oF8

哈哈哈哈。。。:)

Xiaoman  [评] 2016-8-9 19:54



引用:
Originally posted by 廖康 at 2016-8-9 03:47 PM:
看了别人的意见,改了,本是好事,但不承认,却反咬一口,就不是君子所为了。你原来的英译是“About to drink, the lute urges us to mount horses.” 那不是催人上马,是什么?现在的新译还是非常蹩脚:About to..

Very interesting indeed, "lutes played to urge by the players on the horse" it doesn't seem very natural, secondly, played to urge - urge what though urge can be noun or intransitive verb? To urge them to drink on or more or mount horse?

小草  [评] 2016-8-9 21:24



引用:
Originally posted by at 2016-8-9 04:04 PM:
海外的译文还是句句有不妥。如果觉得我说的不对,请有理有据地反驳。

原文:葡萄美酒夜光杯﹐
海外:The delicious grape wine in gleaming Night-Hue Cups;      
点评:1. grape wine虽不错,但wine一般都..

Grape wine seems ok, I deem, as we know some of our wine are made from rice.

小草  [评] 2016-8-9 21:27



引用:
Originally posted by 小草 at 2016-8-9 21:27:


Grape wine seems ok, I deem, as we know some of our wine are made from rice.

Dictionary.com defines "wine" as follows:

"the fermented juice of grapes, made in many varieties, such as red, white, sweet, dry, still, and sparkling, for use as a beverage, in cooking, in religious rites, etc., and usually having an alcoholic content of 14 percent or less."

When we talk about wine made of things other than grapes, we usually specify it as in "gooseberry wine; currant wine."  This is not about right or wrong. It's about better diction.

 [评] 2016-8-9 21:38

"Fine vintage" can be a better choice.

 [评] 2016-8-9 21:55



引用:
Originally posted by at 2016-8-10 02:38 AM:


Dictionary.com defines "wine" as follows:

"the fermented juice of grapes, made in many varieties, such as red, white, sweet, dry, still, and sparkling, for use as a beverage, ..

Well, I know you are kinda nitpicking...

Sherry (English /ˈʃɛri/, Spanish: Jerez [xeˈɾeθ] or [xeˈɾes]) is a fortified wine made from "white grapes" that are grown near the town of

小草  [评] 2016-8-9 21:57



引用:
Originally posted by 小草 at 2016-8-9 21:57:


Well, I know you are kinda nitpicking...

Sherry (English /ˈʃɛri/, Spanish: Jerez [xeˈɾeθ] or [xeˈɾes]) is a fortified wine made from "white grapes&qu..

Meant to say "gooseberry wine; currant wine," but made a wrong copy and paste.

 [评] 2016-8-9 22:01



引用:
Originally posted by at 2016-8-10 02:55 AM:
"Fine vintage" can be a better choice.

译诗是文学,又不是科学,呵呵呵

小草  [评] 2016-8-9 22:01



引用:
Originally posted by at 2016-8-10 03:01 AM:


Meant to say "gooseberry wine; currant wine," but made a wrong copy and paste.

Gooseberry wine is one of the best homemade wine recipes you can get. Although the "grape is the only fruit" which has the correct balance of sugar, water and acid to make perfect wine,

小草  [评] 2016-8-9 22:05

As I pointed out in my comments, nothing is wrong with "the delicious grape wine," but "the delicious wine" would be more laconic since it conveys the same meaning. So it's about diction.

 [评] 2016-8-9 22:05



引用:
Originally posted by 小草 at 2016-8-9 22:01:


译诗是文学,又不是科学,呵呵呵

Because it is literature, it's more important to pay attention to diction.

 [评] 2016-8-9 22:06



引用:
Originally posted by at 2016-8-10 03:06 AM:


Because it is literature, it's more important to pay attention to diction.

All good! ))

小草  [评] 2016-8-9 22:14

thank you all! 多谢小草,路教授,廖博士留言!问好!~

Xiaoman  [评] 2016-8-10 17:51

翻譯原則是原文怎麼說,譯文裡也要怎麼表達。不能多不能少。既然原文裡有葡萄,譯文裡應該表達出來。難道翻譯應該隨心所欲?

海外逸士  [评] 2016-8-11 10:06



引用:
Originally posted by 海外逸士 at 2016-8-11 10:06:
翻譯原則是原文怎麼說,譯文裡也要怎麼表達。不能多不能少。既然原文裡有葡萄,譯文裡應該表達出來。難道翻譯應該隨心所欲?

学好基本文法,写好简单句再来这里和我们讨论。

Xiaoman  [评] 2016-8-11 10:17

養生要緊。以後不再答覆。水平好壞不是幾個人說了算的。我水平再不好,也在等死,沒有前途了。你們還年輕,想想如何提高自己水平。與你們同輩爭個短長。與我半截在土裡的人,爭得都是你們對,對你們前途有何幫助? 要是我的話,應該虛心把別人幾十年刻苦學得的知識搾出來為己所用。才是正理。

要顯水平有個小問題:
on air, in the air, 有什麼不同,為什麼用這兩個介詞分別表達?

海外逸士  [评] 2016-8-11 10:18



引用:
Originally posted by 海外逸士 at 2016-8-11 10:18:
養生要緊。以後不再答覆。水平好壞不是幾個人說了算的。我水平再不好,也在等死,沒有前途了。你們還年輕,想想如何提高自己水平。與你們同輩爭個短長。與我半截在土裡的人,爭得都是你們對,對你們前途有何幫助?..

知道自己半身入土就好, 那你这是来伊甸找下一半的土?

Xiaoman  [评] 2016-8-11 10:25

on air, in the air, 有什麼不同,為什麼用這兩個介詞分別表達?

我没有时间,也没有义务教你英语。

或许其他人愿意教你。

趁还有时间,你去出一本书,成为国内一流大学的研究生必读, 成为中国政府送给美国的国礼,再来和我讨论。

Xiaoman  [评] 2016-8-11 10:27

連這麼個小問題都回答不出,以後別吹噓自己水平高。非不為也,是不能也。

海外逸士  [评] 2016-8-12 07:55



引用:
Originally posted by 海外逸士 at 2016-8-11 10:18:
養生要緊。以後不再答覆。水平好壞不是幾個人說了算的。我水平再不好,也在等死,沒有前途了。你們還年輕,想想如何提高自己水平。與你們同輩爭個短長。與我半截在土裡的人,爭得都是你們對,對你們前途有何幫助?..

这么小儿科的问题人家不屑于回答。找点高级的问题来。知道为什么把“乘凉”译成enjoy the cool是错的吗?你去查查双解词典后会理直气壮地说不错,词典上也有。但其实是错了。你知道为什么吗?

 [评] 2016-8-12 08:06

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